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  #21  
Old 30th July 2014, 15:59
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harrywallin harrywallin is offline
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I did not know Richard Burton was in the movie "Play Dirty"?

Outstanding Jon!
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  #22  
Old 30th July 2014, 16:10
DerFlieger DerFlieger is offline
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no but Michael Caine was hahahaha

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  #23  
Old 9th August 2014, 08:36
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Default All the 22nds in the italian army

Hi Jon
Would appreciate your expert opinion on this.
Been searching every italian division twice now to find every possible 22nd reg that my granddad might have served in. Even the most unlikely ones just to be able to reject them. There really isn´t that many 22nd regs in the italian army. Only 8 divisions had one.

If one takes in to account the known facts about my granddad:

In his early 20s
Divisional artillery man
Fought in the Balkans 1939-43
Is seen with a horse or mule in a picture
Prisoner of war to Germans or Russians


You kan start to disgard many, and looking at the uniform more start to go.
Here is everything I´ve found that has a 22nd reg:


131st Armoured Division Centauro
22nd Bersaglieri Motorized Battalion

202nd Coastal Division (Italy)
22nd CD Artillery Battalion (105mm L28 guns)

Coastal divisions, were second line divisions, usually formed from men in their forties and fifties intended to perform labouring and second line duties. Recruited locally they were often commanded by officers called out of retirement. Their equipment was also second rate; Mussolini had hoped to obtain large quantities of arms and equipment from the disbanded Vichy French army, but this had often been sabotaged of arrived with no ammunition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/202nd_C...ivision_(Italy)

213th Coastal Division (Italy)
22nd Artillery Group (12 batteries, ad hoc regiment

15th Infantry Division Bergamo
22. Motor Transport Section

22nd Infantry Division Cacciatori delle Alpi
22. Mortar Battalion
22. Anti-Tank Company
22. Signal Company
22.Pioneer Company


28th Infantry Division Aosta
22nd Artillery Regiment Vespri
On 20 September 1944 the Aosta was raised again on Sicily as part of the Italian Co-Belligerent Army. The new unit was named Aosta Internal Security Division and consisted of the III and IV Internal Security Brigades. On 15 August 1946 the Aosta Internal Security Division renamed and reformed as Aosta Infantry Brigade. With the expansion of the Italian Army after World War II the brigade was expanded to full division on 1 February 1948, but following a revision of strategy the Aosta division was reduced to brigade again on 21 February 1961.
Since then the name and traditions of the division are carried by the Aosta Mechanized Brigade in Palermo.

44th Infantry Division Cremona
22. Cremona Infantry Regiment
In 1926 the brigade received the 88th Infantry Regiment Friuli and became the infantry component of the 20th Infantry Division Curtatone and Montanara. The same year the brigade was renamed as XX Infantry Brigade. On 24 August 1939 the 20th Infantry Division Curtatone and Montanara was split into the 20th Infantry Division Friuli and the 44th Infantry Division Cremona. The Cremona consisted of the 21st and 22nd Infantry Regiment, 7th Artillery Regiment and the XC CCNN Battalion Pisa.
In June 1940, the division was mobilized and took part in the Italian invasion of France as a part of the Italian XV Army Corps, but due to the quick German victory in the Battle of France the division was not involved in any operations before the French surrender. Afterwards the division was based as garrison unit on Sardinia. When Italy and Germany occupied Vichy France in Operation "Anton" after the Allied landings in French North Africa the division was ferried to Southern Corsica on 8 November 1942 to occupy the island, while the 20th Infantry Division Friuli occupied Northern Corsica.
After the armistice between Italy and the Allies on 3 September 1943 the division in conjunction with the 20th Infantry Division Friuli and French Partisans engaged in heavy combat with the German Sturmbrigade Reichsführer SS and 90th Panzergrenadier Division and the Italian 12 Parachute Battalion of the 184 Parachute Regiment,[2] which came from Sardinia and retreated through Corsica towards the harbor of Bastia in the islands north. On 13 September elements of the Free French 4th Moroccan Mountain Division were landed in Ajaccio to support the Italian efforts to stop the 30,000 retreating German troops. But during the night of 3 to 4 October the last German units were evacuated from Bastia leaving behind 700 dead and 350 POW's.
After the end of operations on Corsica the division was sent as to Sardinia where the 90th CCNN Legion was renamed as 321st Infantry Regiment Cremona. In September 1944 the division was reduced to two infantry (21st, 22nd) and one artillery regiment (7th), armed with British weapons and materiel and renamed as Cremona Combat Group. The Cremona entered the front on 12 January 1945 as part of the British V Corps. When allied forces achieved a major breakthrough during the Spring 1945 offensive the Cremona advanced towards Venice to liberate the city, which the Cremona reached on 30 April 1945.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_In...vision_Cremona

4th Mountain Infantry Division Livorno
22. Field Hospital
The 4th Mountain Infantry Division Livorno was an Infantry Division of the Italian Army during World War II. The Division was formed in October 1939, and was reformed in March 1942, for the planned Invasion of Malta. When the invasion was canceled it was transferred to Sicily in February 1943, and was planned to be shipped to North Africa but that order was cancelled.[1]
The division was still in Sicily during the Allied landings and suffered heavy losses. Mountain Divisions are not to be confused with the "Alpini" specialized mountain troops. The Mountain divisions had pack horse artillery instead of the usual towed type.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Mou...vision_Livorno c

I know this is a bit of a read, but please take your time.

I have my favorites but I´ll keep them to myself until I hear your opinion.

Again. I appreciate any thing you can throw my way.

Thanks! Harry
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  #24  
Old 9th August 2014, 08:53
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Default The 22nd Infantry Division Cacciatori delle Alpi

Forgott to put The 22nd Infantry Division Cacciatori delle Alpis history in above:

The 22nd Infantry Division Cacciatori delle Alpi was an infantry division of the Italian Army during World War II. The Cacciatori delle Alpi was mobilized for war in June 1939, and as part of the Italian 1st Army took part in the Italian invasion of France.[1] It then took part in the Greco-Italian War in the Italian 11th Army. It was later moved to the Balkans stationed in Albania, Montenegro, Dalmatia and finally Slovenia where after the Italian surrender to the Allies in September 1943, the Division surrendered to the German and Croatian forces.[2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/22nd_In...ori_delle_Alpi

If anyone els has an opinion, please feel free to join.
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  #25  
Old 9th August 2014, 09:03
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Default Some pics

Some pictures to aid in the thinking process...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg divisional artillary 22 reg.jpg (64.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg collar insignia 33 tunic.jpg (31.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg alpini artillary.jpg (28.3 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg anti tank.jpg (35.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg mortar1.jpg (56.1 KB, 1 views)
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  #26  
Old 9th August 2014, 10:42
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Pic 1 from Osprey, gunner 59th artillery reg, Cagliari inf div.
The black leather gaiters and grey-green bandolier worn by a variety of mounted units and artillery.

Pic 2 Divisional artillery gunner
Pic 3 Field artillery crew, 75mm m1875/1927 in the Alps/ France June 1940
Pic 4 close up of pic 3. Notice the Divisional insignia on helmet and bandolier.
Pic 5 Italian mortar crew again with same Div artillery insignia on helmet.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg gunner arty reg inf div.jpg (99.6 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg div arty man.jpg (91.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg SAM_5317.jpg (99.6 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg SAM_5318.jpg (97.9 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg mortar div arty.jpg (68.4 KB, 1 views)
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  #27  
Old 9th August 2014, 16:28
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harrywallin harrywallin is offline
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Default Search for granddads Division

OK
This is how I´m thinking. If ever you think I´m wrong, let me now.
We know he was an divisional artillery man in a 22nd regiment from the hat badge.

These reg can be ruled out in my opinion:


131st Armoured Division Centauro
22nd Bersaglieri Motorized Battalion (wich was a tank regiment)

15th Infantry Division Bergamo
22. Motor Transport Section (which like it says is motorized transport)

4th Mountain Infantry Division Livorno
22. Field Hospital (the name says it all)


44th Infantry Division Cremona
22. Cremona Infantry Regiment (Italian infantry div. had artillery reg in them, but infantry reg did not. This division had the 7th artillery reg. And its history is wrong)

202nd Coastal Division (Italy)
22nd CD Artillery Battalion (105mm L28 guns)

213th Coastal Division (Italy)
22nd Artillery Group (12 batteries, ad hoc regiment)
(Booth the costal artillery where older second rate soldiers in their 40 and 50s, NOT 20s like my granddad. They where also not going around Europe fighting, but stationed in Italy defending the homeland. They where also stationed in Sicily.)

28th Infantry Division Aosta
22nd Artillery Regiment Vespri ([I]This is the only 22nd artillery reg imbedded in a infantry division, BUT the history of it and the div is all wrong too that of my granddads. They are in Sicily fighting Allies.


FINALLY….to conclude this leaves only my favorite bid for granddads whereabouts during ww2. They have several 22nd regiments, The 22nd mortar battalion or 22nd anti-tank battalion being my best bet. The division is formed 1939, when my granddads drafted, They are in France 1940, Greece, 1941, and in Yugoslavia 1942-43, giving up to the germans 1943.

22nd Infantry Division Cacciatori delle Alpi
22. Mortar Battalion
22. Anti-Tank Company
22. Signal Company
22.Pioneer Company

If anyone feels I´ve missed something something or jumped the gun?
Please let me know.


Harry
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